I don't have the expertise to know whether Ken Burns and his people captured the entirety of Vietnam. Probably not. He took it on, however, and it was stunning an emotional and sad. I could not take my eyes off each episode. It was a portrayal of the carnage and destruction and dissembling that people in power are able to bring about. We create governments, give them our trust and, for the most part, it is validated. But every so often, perhaps too often, an overzealous response to some ideology brings the horrors of war. This final episode shows a nation that made a pact, accepted the trust, and then betrayed a whole country. Of course, that pact should have never been made and those that knew that never deserved trust. I've still never heard an acceptable reason for even being in Vietnam in the first place. All the other stuff is the debris of that decision. There was great heroism and sacrifice--but to what end. Well, some say patriotism. Is patriotism giving yourself up because some cigar smoking politician who will never see combat thinks war is a good idea. But I digress. This final episode, which focuses on what happened after we pulled out is stunning. This is the part that most people don't think about. If you can keep back a tear during the description of the Vietnam Memorial wall, you are made of sterner stuff than I am. Another triumph for Ken Burns and his people.
The Vietnam War (TV Mini Series)
The Weight of Memory (March 1973 - Onward) (2017)
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"When you are at the center of the storm, you have to get out." - South Vietnamese Civilian Phan Quang Tue
classicsoncall5 December 2017
Warning: Spoilers
By the end of March, 1973, almost all of the remaining American troops had left South Vietnam. For the next two years, the war ravaged on as before. leaving the split nation pretty much in the same condition as it began. Even though the January, 1973 Peace Treaty insured U.S. withdrawal and the release of American POW's, hostilities resumed between the North and South even before the ink was dry, with a hundred forty five thousand North Vietnamese troops still on the ground in the South.
President Nixon's promise to resume air strikes against the North if Saigon was threatened evaporated while he was consumed with the events of Watergate and it's attendant scandals. For the remainder of 1973, the Nixon presidency began to unravel with the revelations of an enemies list, dirty tricks, cover ups and abuse of Presidential power. Rather than face impeachment, Nixon resigned his office on August 8th, 1974.
With defeat inevitable, the South Vietnamese Army began to fall apart with monthly desertions reaching as high as twenty thousand, along with military supplies rapidly deteriorating. In December of 1974, the North Vietnamese began large scale assaults again with no U.S. response, while all of President Thieu's attempts to counter the North failed. Now, thousands of South Vietnamese soldiers, family and refugees retreated further to the South in a 'Convoy of Tears'.
As North Vietnamese troops marched their way toward Saigon, the CIA began sounding the alarm for American evacuation of the embassy. Ambassador Graham Martin appeared to be the only holdout against this advice, and eventually had to be ordered out of the embassy compound. Nearing the end, President Thieu resigned and accepted American evacuation to Taiwan. CIA Saigon station chief Thomas Polgar put the entire war into perspective when he stated "It has been a long fight and we have lost." America's last soldier was evacuated from the roof of the American embassy on April 30th, 1975. North Vietnamese troops entered Saigon at noon and renamed it Ho Chi Minh City, in honor of their now deceased Communist leader. In the ensuing decade, the Communist model completely decimated the country economically.
In due course, America came to honor the soldiers who had given their lives during the war in Vietnam. The Vietnam War Memorial in Washington, D.C. stands as a testament to their valor and courage. Even though traces of disillusionment and bitterness still remain so many years after the conflict, one's best take away is probably best expressed at the end of this chapter by former North Vietnamese Army soldier Nguyen Ngoc who states - "The war is over. Now we need to focus on living".
President Nixon's promise to resume air strikes against the North if Saigon was threatened evaporated while he was consumed with the events of Watergate and it's attendant scandals. For the remainder of 1973, the Nixon presidency began to unravel with the revelations of an enemies list, dirty tricks, cover ups and abuse of Presidential power. Rather than face impeachment, Nixon resigned his office on August 8th, 1974.
With defeat inevitable, the South Vietnamese Army began to fall apart with monthly desertions reaching as high as twenty thousand, along with military supplies rapidly deteriorating. In December of 1974, the North Vietnamese began large scale assaults again with no U.S. response, while all of President Thieu's attempts to counter the North failed. Now, thousands of South Vietnamese soldiers, family and refugees retreated further to the South in a 'Convoy of Tears'.
As North Vietnamese troops marched their way toward Saigon, the CIA began sounding the alarm for American evacuation of the embassy. Ambassador Graham Martin appeared to be the only holdout against this advice, and eventually had to be ordered out of the embassy compound. Nearing the end, President Thieu resigned and accepted American evacuation to Taiwan. CIA Saigon station chief Thomas Polgar put the entire war into perspective when he stated "It has been a long fight and we have lost." America's last soldier was evacuated from the roof of the American embassy on April 30th, 1975. North Vietnamese troops entered Saigon at noon and renamed it Ho Chi Minh City, in honor of their now deceased Communist leader. In the ensuing decade, the Communist model completely decimated the country economically.
In due course, America came to honor the soldiers who had given their lives during the war in Vietnam. The Vietnam War Memorial in Washington, D.C. stands as a testament to their valor and courage. Even though traces of disillusionment and bitterness still remain so many years after the conflict, one's best take away is probably best expressed at the end of this chapter by former North Vietnamese Army soldier Nguyen Ngoc who states - "The war is over. Now we need to focus on living".
Let It Be
DKosty1236 December 2017
Warning: Spoilers
This ending episode is revealing and moving, yet it could have been more. The portrait of the end of South Vietnam is one of a comedy of errors, totaled from years of other countries messing up in this country.
The portrait of the end is of a United States negotiating a deal by Nixon-Kissenger which was supposed to make the South self-sufficient by throwing money at them to fight the North with. Unlike World War 2 where money and resources did win, this was not Vietnam. Vietnam was the biggest waste of money and lives in the history of the World until 1975.
While this covers most of this well, it misses a bit on how Richard Nixon's Pardon By Gerald Ford washed Nixons hands of not just Watergate, but also his blunders in Cambodia/Vietnam. Should Nixon have been charged with war crimes in Cambodia/Vietnam? Because of Ford's full and complete pardon, we will never know.
South Vietnam ended with a whimper. Then, years later this covers the opening of the Vietnam War Memorial Wall that lists the names of all who died in this disaster. It is a touching and moving moment when this opens. This final show depicts it perfectly.
Time has pretty much proved that Vietnam combat was a mistake whose costs achieve no benefits. Now, it seems we were worried about Ho Chi Minh and Communism spreading throughout the world from here. When all was said and done, that has not happened since the fall of South Vietnam.
The portrait of the end is of a United States negotiating a deal by Nixon-Kissenger which was supposed to make the South self-sufficient by throwing money at them to fight the North with. Unlike World War 2 where money and resources did win, this was not Vietnam. Vietnam was the biggest waste of money and lives in the history of the World until 1975.
While this covers most of this well, it misses a bit on how Richard Nixon's Pardon By Gerald Ford washed Nixons hands of not just Watergate, but also his blunders in Cambodia/Vietnam. Should Nixon have been charged with war crimes in Cambodia/Vietnam? Because of Ford's full and complete pardon, we will never know.
South Vietnam ended with a whimper. Then, years later this covers the opening of the Vietnam War Memorial Wall that lists the names of all who died in this disaster. It is a touching and moving moment when this opens. This final show depicts it perfectly.
Time has pretty much proved that Vietnam combat was a mistake whose costs achieve no benefits. Now, it seems we were worried about Ho Chi Minh and Communism spreading throughout the world from here. When all was said and done, that has not happened since the fall of South Vietnam.
The Weight of Memory
Prismark1013 February 2018
My memories of the Vietnam war was the aftermath. Day after day of seeing the Vietnamese boat people on the news when I was a kid.
The peace treaty that led to the US withdrawal was a facade. The US wanted a way out of Vietnam and take their POWs home. The North Vietnamese troops had taken position in the south, waited for the Americans to leave and restarted hostilities.
Nixon was soon to leave office and the south was overwhelmed by the North Vietnamese. The last American soldier left the roof of the American embassy in April 1975.
As the Americans left, the South Vietnamese loyal to them wanted to leave with them for their own safety and/or because promises were made to them that they would be looked after. Some of those promises turned out to be lies. This is what led to the refugee exodus as people jumped on boats to sail to a new life elsewhere. Other countries were reluctant to accept them.
Once the North took over they took reprisals, some were killed others were taken to be re-educated. Being re-educated was in effect being sent to a prisoner of war camp, some were only released in the 1990s.
Communist Vietnam tried to rebuilt but by now theirs was a failing economic system. By the 1990s it was set adrift by Russia, the race to modernise was to acknowledge capitalism. Life slowly improved for the Vietnamese and in due course relations thawed with its former enemy, the Americans.
For the soldiers who returned to a subdued USA, their contribution was eventually honoured in the Vietnam War Memorial in Washington DC. One contributor tells the viewer how he sobbed when he saw the memorial, others went to see the names of their loved ones who died.
Ken Burns concludes his thoughtful, invigorating and solemn series.
The peace treaty that led to the US withdrawal was a facade. The US wanted a way out of Vietnam and take their POWs home. The North Vietnamese troops had taken position in the south, waited for the Americans to leave and restarted hostilities.
Nixon was soon to leave office and the south was overwhelmed by the North Vietnamese. The last American soldier left the roof of the American embassy in April 1975.
As the Americans left, the South Vietnamese loyal to them wanted to leave with them for their own safety and/or because promises were made to them that they would be looked after. Some of those promises turned out to be lies. This is what led to the refugee exodus as people jumped on boats to sail to a new life elsewhere. Other countries were reluctant to accept them.
Once the North took over they took reprisals, some were killed others were taken to be re-educated. Being re-educated was in effect being sent to a prisoner of war camp, some were only released in the 1990s.
Communist Vietnam tried to rebuilt but by now theirs was a failing economic system. By the 1990s it was set adrift by Russia, the race to modernise was to acknowledge capitalism. Life slowly improved for the Vietnamese and in due course relations thawed with its former enemy, the Americans.
For the soldiers who returned to a subdued USA, their contribution was eventually honoured in the Vietnam War Memorial in Washington DC. One contributor tells the viewer how he sobbed when he saw the memorial, others went to see the names of their loved ones who died.
Ken Burns concludes his thoughtful, invigorating and solemn series.
We Learned Nothing
dncorp29 September 2017
Warning: Spoilers
President Nixon Lied again "Draftees will not be sent".
At the former U.S. Army Special Forces Camp at Plei Mei, that had been overrun many times, then abandoned, Republic of (South) Vietnamese Special Forces occupied the Camp, with Two U.S. Army Special Forces Teams (A Team and B Support Team). They received Artillery Support from a U.S. Army Artillery Firebase of mostly "Draftees" 18 to 19 year olds, located on top of a mountain. This pocket of resistance was shutdown 1975 after the Fall of Saigon. The U.S. Army Special Forces Teams were moved to a Royal Thai Airbase.
From the Royal Thai Airbase MH-53s flew into Vietnam kilometers from Plei Can. Teams of U.S. Army Special Forces Long Range Reconnaissance Patrol Teams conducted Special Reconnaissance and Special Surveillance and called in B-52 Strikes against the Ho Chi Minh Trail where the Ho Chi Minh Trail enters Vietnam from Laos. This was President Nixon's last ditch efforts to assist the Republic of (South) Vietnam as he secretly promised the South Vietnamese President in writing.
Other U.S. Army Special Forces Long Range Reconnaissance Patrols were flown by U.S.A.F. MH-53s into Cambodia and Laos attempting to locate U.S. Prisoners of War, and Missing In Action.
1980 The Iran Iraq Wars, and the U.S.S.R. Occupation of Afghanistan.
U.S. Army Special Forces Teams attached to the CIA, to Train, Arm and ended up leading the 1980s Pro U.S. Afghan Muhajeen, as CIA Operation Cyclone, this time we were the Advisors like those that were sent into Vietnam, that was eventually escalated into the Vietnam War. Like before the U.S. President lied about the U.S. Presence.
U.S. Army Special Forces Teams to U.S. Ally Iraq to assist the U.S. Ally Iraqis Military that was losing 1980 to 1982 the Iran Iraq Wars 1980 to 1989. U.S. Army Special Forces ended up Leading U.S. Ally Iraq's Combat Units. The U.S. President lied about our Presence at and Involvement with the Iran Iraq Wars.
The U.S. Politicians lost Vietnam and just like Vietnam Lost U.S. Ally Afghanistan by abandoning the 1980s Pro U.S. Afghan Muhajeen after CIA Operation Cyclone 1980 to 1990. "We F__Ked Up The End Game" - U.S. Congressman Charles Wilson Democrat Texas aka "Charlie Wilson's War" after he asked U.S. Congress for $300 Million U.S. Aid and U.S. Assistance for U.S. Ally Afghanistan, U.S. Congress Cut All U.S. Funding of U.S. Ally Afghanistan just like U.S. Congress Cut all Funding to U.S. Ally Republic of Vietnam 1973. 5 Million Pro U.S.S.R. Afghans returned to U.S. Ally Afghanistan 1990, most had fought in the 1980 tp 1989 Iran Iraq Wars on the side of U.S.S.R. Backed Iran, they became the Afghan Taliban and immediately easily wiped out the U.S. Ally 1980s Pro U.S. Afghan Muhajeen as like the Republic of Vietnam's Military they lacked Ammunition and Military Equipment, the Afghan Taliban then Systematically Massacred about 1 Million Afghan Civilians in accordance with the Holy Koran as Collaborators to the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers (Kafir).
Back then Vietnam were were told to "Suck It Up", they believed that we were "slackers" "fakers" "malingers" there was no "P.T.S.D.", most "Self Medicated" and became Alcoholics or "Dopers", we knew this existed after waking up covered in cold sweats, not knowing how long we were sitting up in bed.
To prevent another Vietnam the U.S. Senate created U.S. Law, 1973 War Powers Resolution, and the U.S. House of Representatives created U.S. Law, 1973 War Powers Act, Only U.S. Congress can Declare War. Both Houses of U.S. Congress must be informed of Any or All U.S. Military Activities before being Ordered by the U.S. President as Commander In Chief. These Two U.S. Laws would be Violated by President Obama as Commander In Chief Ordering the Overthrow of U.S. Ally President Gaddaffi of Libya, a U.S. Ally since 2006. While U.S. President Clinton obeyed these Two U.S. Laws after previously Violating these Two U.S. Laws, 1993 (Caused the 1993 First Osama Bin Laden Attacks of the World Trade Center), 1996. 1998 President Clinton Demanded that U.S. Congress Declare War Against Iraq with his 1998 State of the Union Address "Weapons of Mass Destruction' in response the U.S. House of Representatives created U.S. Law, Iraq Liberation Act of 1998, that then caused the Second Osama Bin Laden Attacks as the 9/11 2001 Attacks. President G.W. Bush "Inherited" President Clinton's 1998 Declared War Against Iraq. The U.S. Senate then Demanded that President G.W. Bush "Accomplish" President Clinton's 1998 Declared War Against Iraq with U.S. Senate U.S. Law Iraq War Resolution 2002, U.S. Congress then Appropriated Funds to the President Clinton Declared War Against Iraq that also Caused the War At Afghanistan.
At the former U.S. Army Special Forces Camp at Plei Mei, that had been overrun many times, then abandoned, Republic of (South) Vietnamese Special Forces occupied the Camp, with Two U.S. Army Special Forces Teams (A Team and B Support Team). They received Artillery Support from a U.S. Army Artillery Firebase of mostly "Draftees" 18 to 19 year olds, located on top of a mountain. This pocket of resistance was shutdown 1975 after the Fall of Saigon. The U.S. Army Special Forces Teams were moved to a Royal Thai Airbase.
From the Royal Thai Airbase MH-53s flew into Vietnam kilometers from Plei Can. Teams of U.S. Army Special Forces Long Range Reconnaissance Patrol Teams conducted Special Reconnaissance and Special Surveillance and called in B-52 Strikes against the Ho Chi Minh Trail where the Ho Chi Minh Trail enters Vietnam from Laos. This was President Nixon's last ditch efforts to assist the Republic of (South) Vietnam as he secretly promised the South Vietnamese President in writing.
Other U.S. Army Special Forces Long Range Reconnaissance Patrols were flown by U.S.A.F. MH-53s into Cambodia and Laos attempting to locate U.S. Prisoners of War, and Missing In Action.
1980 The Iran Iraq Wars, and the U.S.S.R. Occupation of Afghanistan.
U.S. Army Special Forces Teams attached to the CIA, to Train, Arm and ended up leading the 1980s Pro U.S. Afghan Muhajeen, as CIA Operation Cyclone, this time we were the Advisors like those that were sent into Vietnam, that was eventually escalated into the Vietnam War. Like before the U.S. President lied about the U.S. Presence.
U.S. Army Special Forces Teams to U.S. Ally Iraq to assist the U.S. Ally Iraqis Military that was losing 1980 to 1982 the Iran Iraq Wars 1980 to 1989. U.S. Army Special Forces ended up Leading U.S. Ally Iraq's Combat Units. The U.S. President lied about our Presence at and Involvement with the Iran Iraq Wars.
The U.S. Politicians lost Vietnam and just like Vietnam Lost U.S. Ally Afghanistan by abandoning the 1980s Pro U.S. Afghan Muhajeen after CIA Operation Cyclone 1980 to 1990. "We F__Ked Up The End Game" - U.S. Congressman Charles Wilson Democrat Texas aka "Charlie Wilson's War" after he asked U.S. Congress for $300 Million U.S. Aid and U.S. Assistance for U.S. Ally Afghanistan, U.S. Congress Cut All U.S. Funding of U.S. Ally Afghanistan just like U.S. Congress Cut all Funding to U.S. Ally Republic of Vietnam 1973. 5 Million Pro U.S.S.R. Afghans returned to U.S. Ally Afghanistan 1990, most had fought in the 1980 tp 1989 Iran Iraq Wars on the side of U.S.S.R. Backed Iran, they became the Afghan Taliban and immediately easily wiped out the U.S. Ally 1980s Pro U.S. Afghan Muhajeen as like the Republic of Vietnam's Military they lacked Ammunition and Military Equipment, the Afghan Taliban then Systematically Massacred about 1 Million Afghan Civilians in accordance with the Holy Koran as Collaborators to the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers (Kafir).
Back then Vietnam were were told to "Suck It Up", they believed that we were "slackers" "fakers" "malingers" there was no "P.T.S.D.", most "Self Medicated" and became Alcoholics or "Dopers", we knew this existed after waking up covered in cold sweats, not knowing how long we were sitting up in bed.
To prevent another Vietnam the U.S. Senate created U.S. Law, 1973 War Powers Resolution, and the U.S. House of Representatives created U.S. Law, 1973 War Powers Act, Only U.S. Congress can Declare War. Both Houses of U.S. Congress must be informed of Any or All U.S. Military Activities before being Ordered by the U.S. President as Commander In Chief. These Two U.S. Laws would be Violated by President Obama as Commander In Chief Ordering the Overthrow of U.S. Ally President Gaddaffi of Libya, a U.S. Ally since 2006. While U.S. President Clinton obeyed these Two U.S. Laws after previously Violating these Two U.S. Laws, 1993 (Caused the 1993 First Osama Bin Laden Attacks of the World Trade Center), 1996. 1998 President Clinton Demanded that U.S. Congress Declare War Against Iraq with his 1998 State of the Union Address "Weapons of Mass Destruction' in response the U.S. House of Representatives created U.S. Law, Iraq Liberation Act of 1998, that then caused the Second Osama Bin Laden Attacks as the 9/11 2001 Attacks. President G.W. Bush "Inherited" President Clinton's 1998 Declared War Against Iraq. The U.S. Senate then Demanded that President G.W. Bush "Accomplish" President Clinton's 1998 Declared War Against Iraq with U.S. Senate U.S. Law Iraq War Resolution 2002, U.S. Congress then Appropriated Funds to the President Clinton Declared War Against Iraq that also Caused the War At Afghanistan.
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