Last night I finished up what I believe is a Netflix original documentary. I thought I had seen this already, but turns out the doc I had already seen was the "30 for 30" installment, "Prince of Pennsylvania". And of course, I had already seen the dramatization from a couple years ago, "Foxcatcher". This one focuses more on the relationship between wrestler, Dave Schultz, and billionaire eccentric, John du Pont, whereas it seemed the other two focused more on Dave's brother, Mark, who Channing Tatum played in the film. This is such a fascinating story of insanity, wealth, privilege, power- all out of control, and an innocent victim- Dave- who, by all accounts was an all-around incredible stand-up human being. The big surprise in this whole story, and maybe saving grace, is that for once all that money and privilege could not save Mr. du Pont, who ended up rotting in prison til his death a few years ago at a ripe old age. But definitely check this out when you get a chance- even if you've seen the other two films already. I think in many ways, this one is actually the most powerful of the three...
22 Reviews
transparent person walking throught field
markgibson-9922018 May 2018
When they were showing clips of the open field looking towards a tree line and they cast was talking about when John would ask them if they saw anything moving towards the trees, did anyone else notice the transparent person walking through the field? walking left to right about a quarter of the way up from the bottom of the screen it starts at around 37:10 you will hear a light bell ring and right after that it will start. Keep your eyes in the middle towards the bottom of the screen and you will see it. its right after the guy in the red sweater says that John would fast forward it and say are you sure you don't see something. Let me know what you think, I just showed it to my brother and he was able to catch it.
Documented Demise of the Foxcatcher Team
pjbhaumik16 June 2016
Warning: Spoilers
Team Foxcatcher, the documentary, illustrated the demise of the international wrestling power house, Foxcatcher farm. Integrating testimonials, media footage, photographs, and memoirs austerely depicted one of wrestling's worst moments. John Du Pont's murder of international wrestling champion Dave Shultz shocked the sport's world immediately before the 1996 summer olympics. Dave's wife and family appeared emotionally paralyzed while John's state visibly deteriorated from enthusiastic to resentful. The reality was that John could not imitate the athletes whom he nurtured nor could he accept their victories as his own. Unraveling the mystery behind the superficially staid Foxcatcher Team was an eye opening look at private sports' enterprise.
More added footage to an unsettling, intriguing story
Red_Identity10 August 2016
Seeing the film play out brought back memories of Bennet Miller's fantastic Foxcatcher. Although both have different leads, I think both also work to highlight many of the same recurring themes and plot points. This film only adds to the mystery and intrigue of the entire case and of Du Pont. It works to highlight certain scenarios and it also emphasizes the tragedy as something that was just inevitable, which is different to the more spontaneous character developments of Miller's film. The relationship between Du Pont and Schultz also seemed to be friendlier and at least more like one that had arisen due to friendship, as opposed to the one highlighted by Miller's film. This works as a great companion piece to that one, but it also stands on its own, it tells its own contained story.
Only really scratches the surface
phenomynouss4 December 2020
I had vaguely heard of this incident around the time the notable movie came out in 2014, but I hadn't had much interest until I saw a youtube video that covered the incident more in-depth. That drew me to this documentary film.
This film is kind of a mixed bag. The focus of the youtube video I saw was almost entirely on John DuPont, whereas this one is much more spread around in terms of its protagonists. Unfortunately, as a result there's very little that we get much depth to. We hear a lot about how Dave Schultz was a great and kind person, but don't really get to see too much of it in action, either through home video footage (of which they use a lot of) or personal stories told by others.
The pacing is very slipshod, as the timeline is given almost no importance whatsoever. I had no idea what year John DuPont got into wrestling, what year "Team Foxcatcher" started, or what year certain people were booted from the team, and had to largely piece together the timeline of events from timestamps on home video footage and guesswork based on the 4-year spacing of the Olympic games.
The overall problem with this is it gives an almost heady, dreamlike trip through the events at DuPont's manor and the team, in which a lot of detail is either compressed or skipped over, and thus very little ends up being retained by the end of it.
Too little attention is given to a great number of characters who appear, have their problems with John, and end up quitting or being kicked out by John as he becomes increasingly paranoid and psychotic. A lot of the home movie footage ends up just being random snippets taken of some of the wrestlers filming their families or their training, and often played with little or no context, just as something to look at while telling the story.
The tragic incident, when it comes, is almost anticlimactic. After so little focus is given on any one particular person or group of persons, there seems to be almost no warning or justification to the murder when it happens. If this was how it actually felt for those living at the mansion, nothing in the interviews or the narrative clues us in to that, particularly as we start getting to incidents with John roaming around the grounds of his property, often drunk and pointing guns at people, or the absolutely psychotic paranoia that leads him to banning the color black from his property, leading him to fire the black wrestlers on his team, which are treated less as serious incidents and more along the lines of "Wow this guy is kind of wacky, isn't he?"
Other instances of the use of home footage seem somewhat unnecessary, particularly the film shot by John himself, including footage of just the woods outside his property. People interviewed tell us the context of this footage, that John was absolutely convinced there were people hiding in the background or artificial trees spying on him, but the footage itself is absolutely unnecessary when the interviewees themselves are highly effective at conveying the extreme unease of a paranoid John showing them video footage he took and ranting at them about robotic trees or whatever.
Probably the worst aspect of this documentary overall is that rather than being complete or semi-complete overview of Team Foxcatcher and the people involved, it left me wanting more. It felt like the most basic kind of introduction to someone completely unfamiliar with the events, not as a means of educating them, but more as an introduction, waiting for some other source to fill in the rest.
It's not a very good sign for a 90ish minute documentary that I feel that I actually got more in-depth information from a 5 minute youtube video segment than I got from this entire film.
This film is kind of a mixed bag. The focus of the youtube video I saw was almost entirely on John DuPont, whereas this one is much more spread around in terms of its protagonists. Unfortunately, as a result there's very little that we get much depth to. We hear a lot about how Dave Schultz was a great and kind person, but don't really get to see too much of it in action, either through home video footage (of which they use a lot of) or personal stories told by others.
The pacing is very slipshod, as the timeline is given almost no importance whatsoever. I had no idea what year John DuPont got into wrestling, what year "Team Foxcatcher" started, or what year certain people were booted from the team, and had to largely piece together the timeline of events from timestamps on home video footage and guesswork based on the 4-year spacing of the Olympic games.
The overall problem with this is it gives an almost heady, dreamlike trip through the events at DuPont's manor and the team, in which a lot of detail is either compressed or skipped over, and thus very little ends up being retained by the end of it.
Too little attention is given to a great number of characters who appear, have their problems with John, and end up quitting or being kicked out by John as he becomes increasingly paranoid and psychotic. A lot of the home movie footage ends up just being random snippets taken of some of the wrestlers filming their families or their training, and often played with little or no context, just as something to look at while telling the story.
The tragic incident, when it comes, is almost anticlimactic. After so little focus is given on any one particular person or group of persons, there seems to be almost no warning or justification to the murder when it happens. If this was how it actually felt for those living at the mansion, nothing in the interviews or the narrative clues us in to that, particularly as we start getting to incidents with John roaming around the grounds of his property, often drunk and pointing guns at people, or the absolutely psychotic paranoia that leads him to banning the color black from his property, leading him to fire the black wrestlers on his team, which are treated less as serious incidents and more along the lines of "Wow this guy is kind of wacky, isn't he?"
Other instances of the use of home footage seem somewhat unnecessary, particularly the film shot by John himself, including footage of just the woods outside his property. People interviewed tell us the context of this footage, that John was absolutely convinced there were people hiding in the background or artificial trees spying on him, but the footage itself is absolutely unnecessary when the interviewees themselves are highly effective at conveying the extreme unease of a paranoid John showing them video footage he took and ranting at them about robotic trees or whatever.
Probably the worst aspect of this documentary overall is that rather than being complete or semi-complete overview of Team Foxcatcher and the people involved, it left me wanting more. It felt like the most basic kind of introduction to someone completely unfamiliar with the events, not as a means of educating them, but more as an introduction, waiting for some other source to fill in the rest.
It's not a very good sign for a 90ish minute documentary that I feel that I actually got more in-depth information from a 5 minute youtube video segment than I got from this entire film.
Excellent Documentary
olyref1 July 2016
Excellent piece from those who were actually there. No punches pulled, straight forward and truthful. I will never forget where I was when I heard Dave was murdered.
It was very difficult seeing this replayed but I feel it was the best of the three films on the subject. The movie Foxcatcher was well acted and the 30 for 30 Documentary was also well done, however I feel this was the better of the three.
Whenever I am at a wrestling event and I hear our national anthem, I always think of Dave on the podium in LA with the gold medal and his smile.
It was very difficult seeing this replayed but I feel it was the best of the three films on the subject. The movie Foxcatcher was well acted and the 30 for 30 Documentary was also well done, however I feel this was the better of the three.
Whenever I am at a wrestling event and I hear our national anthem, I always think of Dave on the podium in LA with the gold medal and his smile.
Sick Unsettling Movie
billbillson-312587 May 2016
Warning: Spoilers
Something about this Documentary makes me feel sick like looking into the eyes of a sick pedophile
John DuPont strikes an uncanny resemblance to Robert Durst (The Jinx) Even with the same looks and mannerisms
Cant understand how people could be so desperate to be friends with some old loser for money
and the most sickening of the whole story is Valentin Yordanov What a low life His "friend" gets killed and he doesn't stand by the family instead profits of it
This documentary shows the very worst of human existence.
John DuPont strikes an uncanny resemblance to Robert Durst (The Jinx) Even with the same looks and mannerisms
Cant understand how people could be so desperate to be friends with some old loser for money
and the most sickening of the whole story is Valentin Yordanov What a low life His "friend" gets killed and he doesn't stand by the family instead profits of it
This documentary shows the very worst of human existence.
Best documentary - hands down!
mcandrewsallyson28 July 2017
This is an incredible documentary!
It contains actual footage and home videos from Dave Schultz's life.
The film serves as a great tribute to Dave, his family, friends and wrestlers.
I had the privilege of viewing it at the Tribeca Film Festival in New York City. When I got home, I watched it again. It is THAT good!
It contains actual footage and home videos from Dave Schultz's life.
The film serves as a great tribute to Dave, his family, friends and wrestlers.
I had the privilege of viewing it at the Tribeca Film Festival in New York City. When I got home, I watched it again. It is THAT good!
Disturbing at times
w-7579214 May 2020
This film did a good job at portraying what went on in this situation. I found it very disturbing how they portrayed his mental state. I recommend while you watch this film you take into account the background music. As I watched it the background sounds helped the point of the scene come across very clearly.
Thought provoking and sad
Mymsy28 February 2017
I have watched this documentary twice now, it is such a fascinating and thought provoking film. There is a great sense of sadness associated with this story and I still think about it now and keep recommending it to everyone that I can! This was a topic that I would not normally watch and this broke that barrier down, a totally unexpected and wonderful discovery.
Well documented descent into the mind of a sad little man
Agent108 January 2022
The story behind Team Foxcatcher captured the imagination of the nation during the 1990s. A man in John Du Pont, desperate to put some stamp on the athletic world, killing one of the best wrestlers in United States' history. It divided the team and ultimately led to more drama off the mat than on.
What made this documentary superior to most of its contemporaries was the exclusive footage provided by the wrestlers. Also, unlike the ESPN 30 for 30 take on the story, we got a wider array of opinions as well as a deeper dive into Du Pont's wayward emotional state that eventually ended with him killing Dave Schultz.
Between the sudden fascination of the story being brought into popular media, this story takes the time to build the worldview of Du Pont and how a man who was never loved or supported created Foxcatcher Farms as a way of dealing with his strife. His mental state just didn't run parellel to the type of person that could sustain this world, and it was little surprise his life went off the rails so quickly.
While the story does humanize Du Pont a little, it mostly stays on track with the primary story...a world where Olympic wrestlers competed and trained to be the best in the world. In a lot of ways this place was an athletic Camelot, but the nightmare ended quickly that fateful January day in 1996.
If anything, the true story of Foxcatcher is one of desperation and sadness. People will go to the furthest reaches to make themselves feel important. Sadly, many of them step on a lot of people along the way.
What made this documentary superior to most of its contemporaries was the exclusive footage provided by the wrestlers. Also, unlike the ESPN 30 for 30 take on the story, we got a wider array of opinions as well as a deeper dive into Du Pont's wayward emotional state that eventually ended with him killing Dave Schultz.
Between the sudden fascination of the story being brought into popular media, this story takes the time to build the worldview of Du Pont and how a man who was never loved or supported created Foxcatcher Farms as a way of dealing with his strife. His mental state just didn't run parellel to the type of person that could sustain this world, and it was little surprise his life went off the rails so quickly.
While the story does humanize Du Pont a little, it mostly stays on track with the primary story...a world where Olympic wrestlers competed and trained to be the best in the world. In a lot of ways this place was an athletic Camelot, but the nightmare ended quickly that fateful January day in 1996.
If anything, the true story of Foxcatcher is one of desperation and sadness. People will go to the furthest reaches to make themselves feel important. Sadly, many of them step on a lot of people along the way.
Upsetting scenes of hunting
stuart-donaldson23 December 2018
A Must See for all in the Wrestling Community
lancecampbell-556131 July 2016
Warning: Spoilers
If you have seen the major motion picture, Foxcatcher, this is the real story. All wrestlers should see this. It is an intimate look at the legendary wrestler Dave Schultz, and his family.
It also reveals how John Du Pont descended into madness and murdered Dave. Unlike the Hollywood movie, this is the real story from those that were there.
I saw the movie, and it was great. The documentary 30 for 30: The Prince of Pennsylvania was great as well. This documentary is the detailed look at the events, and it gives us a good look at the Schultz family, as well as their struggle with the court case that ensued.
It also reveals how John Du Pont descended into madness and murdered Dave. Unlike the Hollywood movie, this is the real story from those that were there.
I saw the movie, and it was great. The documentary 30 for 30: The Prince of Pennsylvania was great as well. This documentary is the detailed look at the events, and it gives us a good look at the Schultz family, as well as their struggle with the court case that ensued.
Wrestling with demons
cperezschool15 May 2020
Warning: Spoilers
The film Team Foxcatcher by director Jon Greenhalgh tells a chilling recap of events taken place on a multimillion dollar athletic facility owned by the lonely prince himself, John du Pont. From the beginning, you already can tell something good will end up bad as the many homemade videos of the du Pont are just rather odd. With him staring off into nothing, or pausing in his speech at random times, du Pont was creepy from the moment we met him. John's social skills were very poor so he really had nothing to offer in terms of personality, such as Dave's. And as the movie pointed out John was embraced by his "children" and felt protected. But as most characters pointed out, they all knew John was crazy, yet the only reason they stayed was the hope of success and opportunity that Foxcatcher and John offered. Dave was the only one who saw the good in John yet it was his life taken away at the end for no reason except the unpredictability of mental illness.
The chilling,creepy life of du Pont
kay-0415513 June 2020
The documentary, Team Foxcatcher, did a wonderful job of portraying the life and effect of John Du Pont. It then went on to show how the Foxcatcher Farm was grown by John du Pont. The film initially portrays du Pont as a philanthropist and an overall good person through the use of uplifting and energetic background music. Further, into the film, you can see how the overall viewpoint of du Pont began to change. The wrestlers seemed to get a more intense sense of weirdness and creepiness as they got to know du Pont more. They almost felt on edge every time they interacted with du Pont and they sensed a feeling of darkness and abnormal behavior that had come over him. One thing that I wish that the documentary discussed more was the other sports that du Pont sponsored on the Foxcatcher Farm. Overall, I enjoyed this film a lot. The downfall of the life of du Pont was beautifully depicted.
Compelling document of wealth & mental illness.
trevd-2297725 February 2020
Warning: Spoilers
This is an absorbing documentary about the facts surrounding the murder of wrestler Dave Schultz by heir to the Du Pont fortune, John Du Pont.
To my mind it was obvious very early that John Du Pont had some very serious mental problems. It seems that because of his families' vast wealth he was indulged by most people when an ordinary citizen would have had contact with psychiatric help much sooner. If anything, the documentary highlights some of the problems inherent in private sponsorship of what should be state or federal governed organizations such as law enforcement. A cautionary tale if ever there was one.
One thing I cannot get out of my mind after watching this documentary is the compassion of Dave Schultz's daughter for John Du Pont. She laments the fact that her father was mourned by everybody, but when John Du Pont died in prison nobody was sad for him. Kudos to her. Would the world not be a better place if more people thought like her?
Brilliant and gutting
roakie7210 October 2021
Warning: Spoilers
This is a very well made documentary. The balance is just about perfect between home movies and current day interviews. It wisely starts in the current time then goes back and tells a story that builds and builds, and gets stranger and stranger, up to the heartbreaking climax. It then gives us insight on the fallout before taking us back to the current time. It's very much to the credit of the filmmakers that they don't overly vilify Du Pont -- they show him as being worthy of pity as well as contempt, and show that in many ways he was a wonderful benefactor who took it too far. The storytelling is chilling. The conclusion that, as Danielle says at the end that the whole thing is just sad is accurate. Everyone suffered, everyone got hurt. Rather than sensationalize the story, it puts real people and faces and emotions front and center. Really exceptional production.
Team Foxcatcher is worth the catch. It's a very good documentary.
ironhorse_iv5 December 2016
Warning: Spoilers
It's been nearly 2 years after director Bennett Miller's 'Foxcatcher' hit theaters, across America & won many awards for its unsettling portrayal of the dark side of sports. Since then, many of filmmakers have also jump into the source material for a chance to tell a new side of the Olympic tragedy. One of them is this film produced and distributed by Netflix. Directed by Jon Greenhalgh, and using family home videos, archive news footage and interviews with those who were there, the documentary hopes to weight in, on the murder-mystery, in order to give a better understandment on what led up to Dave Schultz's death, and how John du Pont spiraled from a well-meaning benefactor to a convicted murderer in 1996. Without spoiling the movie, too much, I love, how the film is told by former members of Team Foxcatcher, USA Wrestling board members, and local police, as well as Schultz's wife Nancy and their two children, Alexander and Danielle, who were toddlers when the family moved to the Farm, rather than focusing on the main three main characters like 2014's 'Foxcatcher' did. It provide a lot more story than what happen to Schultz and Du Pont. Honestly, it would had surprised me, more if this movie show a little of Du Pont's influence on other sports like modern pentathlon, swimming, & track and field. After all, wrestlers weren't the only athletes to train at Foxcatcher. So, where are their stories with John Du Pont!? Another problem of the film is how much, this documentary borrow from the 2015 installment of the ESPN documentary series "30 for 30": "the Prince of Pennsylvania". It's almost a mirror for mirror shot of that episode. It made this film, a little bit predictable on where it was heading. I would love to see the movie explore more about Du Pont's and Schultz's relationship, besides the conflict in coaching styles. After all, there were lot of reports that Dave's love for the Soviet Union style of living and Jon Du Pont's over-patriotism for America, did led to many conflicts, and paranoia between the two, during the time, where Du Pont's health worsen by drugs and alcohol. Another thing, they could had explore more, was the sexuality of the two men. After all, some historians believe that there was some envy, between the two, because of the fact, that Dave could make a family, while John Du Pont couldn't, due to having his testicles removed, after a horse riding accident. Another claim, by some historians, says that Du Pont was secretly homosexual, and that Schultz was in fact, in a sexual relationship with him before things got soured; when Du Pont got close to Bulgarian wrestler, Valentin Jordanov. Other claims that Du Pont got mad, because Schultz refused to take part in his sexual advances toward him, due to the fact, that Dave was a family man, nor secretly gay. Anyways, many of these theories would explain why Du Pont seem a bit asexual, toward women and why Du Pont didn't want Schultz to leave for Stanford. Instead, the movie never truly answers that. Despite that, I do like the how the film is very informative as it provide facts rather than make up accounts like 2014's 'Foxcatcher', did. However, the movie does have some faults. I didn't like, how Dave's brother and fellow wrestling champion, Mark Schultz, doesn't appear here. Not only does he not appear in the interview sequences, but also most of the archive footage. Because of that, it kinda hurts this documentary, a bit, since Mark was very close to du Pont, and his brother, Dave. Yes, I know that Mark didn't live in Foxcatcher Estate while, Dave was coach, but he still should had been mention. His absence is very notable. Nevertheless, one thing that I really hate about this documentary is the unneeded use of home video footage of Dave's children wrestling in the nude. It really didn't need to show to the world. Honestly, in my opinion, this footage shouldn't even existed. It makes Dave Schultz look like a pedophile. I know, a lot of good parents that has no sexual perversion toward their own children, but they should know better, than to have photos or video of their young children in the nude, and also, not share it in a public media. It's somewhat bad parenting. The source material is already pretty disturbing; things like this, shouldn't existed. Despite that, I have to say, 'Team Foxcatcher' is a solid, somber persistently eerie and unnerving documentary that doesn't sensationalize anything, instead letting the old footage & the interviews speak for themselves. If you enjoyed the sport of wrestling, or just have a morbid curiosity of what happen in 1996. I have to say, this documentary is a solid watch. Highly recommend.
Proof that wealth has as many negatives as benefits
danatural-7594826 February 2019
Warning: Spoilers
This film was done in such good taste...brought back such a crazy time for Deleware County,Pa ..The Dupont name in Pa and De was literally thought of the equivalent to The Royal Family in England..to see how John Dupont truely was a tortured soul from his lack of human affection his entire life im sure played a huge role in his trust issues..He was a good person no doubt in my mind n this film i think has a human way of showing us that..this movie may have wrestling as its basic plot but honestly its just the backdrop of the real meaning...the Newtown Square police along with several other authority figures in Delco should of been held accountable for their lack of being able to separate business n pleasure....thats one angle i would of liked the director to delve deeper into but i know that wasnt his focus on this particular film. Dave Shultz lost his life being a freind/companion/husband and father..even til the day he took his last breath he still truely believed in John Dupont and that tells me alot about who both men were not just how this particular event that really is how both men are remembered by the general public..couldnt be further from the truth on both mens accounts
Narrators points of view
resendeashley14 May 2020
I think the film was produced so nicely with the narrators points of view. Showing the clips from 1988 and the background voices of the people involved in the story line showed how how many supportive and unsupportive people John had beside him. I enjoyed this film a lot.
Outstanding Documentary,
tdesimone-5671416 May 2020
Warning: Spoilers
The film portrays how mental health disorders really affect your life and the ones around you. John dealt with a continuously worsening mental illness of schizophrenia that drastically affected his life, causing him to act more and more abnormal everyday. This film goes to show how mental illnesses must be treated immediately to avoid what happened to the innocent life of World/Olympic champion wrestler David Schultz.
good old f..... money
muratpsy5 April 2021
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