Practical Magic (1998) Poster

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7/10
A dark comedy, chick flick style
rooprect22 January 2014
I hate using labels like "chick flick", but one look at the IMDb voting demographics shows that this is literally a chick flick. As of the time I'm writing this, females rate it nearly 2 points higher than males, and in the under 18 group it's even more exaggerated.

Well I'm a guy, and I dug it. If you're flexible enough to appreciate the macho man cheesiness of "Commando" (like Arnold Schwarzenegger riding on the landing gear of a Boeing 747) as well as the chick flick cheesiness of "Pretty Woman" (like Richard Gere riding on the sunroof of a white limo) ...both of which are equal in amounts of cheese but from different perspectives... then I think you can have a fun time watching "Practical Magic". Why? Because it seems to hit us with both extremes.

On the surface, the story seems to be brewing a sinister dark comedy: the Owens women just can't seem to keep men long before they kick the bucket. Tons of potential for a slightly demented "Beetlejuice" kinda story, or even "Heathers". But instead of going in that direction (i.e. treating death as crazy joke), "Practical Magic" takes it quite seriously and is not afraid to get pretty sentimental on the subject. In other words, it takes a very morbid "guy flick" story but treats it with "chick flick" sensitivity.

And that's just the beginning. We haven't gotten to the other dark themes of wife beating, alcohol abuse, sexual promiscuity, murder and re-murder. So, you ask, if it has all these disturbing themes and refuses to make light of them, how the heck can this be a comedy? The answer is that the leading ladies, not just Sandra Bullock and Nicole Kidman but also their crazy aunts played by Stockard Channing and Diane Wiest, act their roles with playful humor and endearing wit. It reminded me a little of "Sex and the City", the way the stories can be downright upsetting, but the humor comes in the way the characters behave despite it all. "Practical Magic" doesn't rely on a silly story for its laughs but instead lets the acting pave the way for levity.

Roger Ebert gave this movie a mostly negative review, saying "the movie doesn't seem sure what tone to adopt, veering uncertainly from horror to laughs to romance." But I think Ebert failed to see that the film's charm is the fact that the characters can indulge in laughs and romance *despite* the horror.

Ebert also criticized: "'Practical Magic' is too scary for children and too childish for adults. Who was it made for?" The answer is it's made for adults who can indulge in childishness. Basically if you get the gist of my review, it's the idea that this film is an unexpected blend of opposites. I have to admit it caught me off guard for a while, but I eventually figured out the rhythm and had a fun ride.

Do NOT expect a sinister, dark comedy. Do NOT expect a totally light-hearted silly romp either. The best way I can describe it would be to compare it to some of the 80s horror-comedies like "Fright Night", "Vamp" or even "Gremlins" but with a dash of "Thelma & Louise". Throw em all together in a giant cauldron and have some fun.
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7/10
Sweetly enjoyable.
FiendishDramaturgy19 August 2003
Warning: Spoilers
I'm sure I'm not the only Magick User to review this movie, but if you're interested in a pagan view, here it is. If not, have a nice day.

"There is no devil in the Craft." How wonderful to hear those words come out of Sandra Bullock's mouth! I was simply delighted.

I'm not going to sit here and waste your time with the plot. The movie's been out since 1998 and most of you already know it. If you haven't seen the movie, the rest of the reviews gives you the plot, ad nauseum.

Nicole Kidman's character, Gillian Owens, is played wonderfully as a seductress. It was a bit stereotypical (remember the flighty Wiccan in Blair Witch 2?), but well played by Kidman.

I did not like the use of Belladonna, as it is used in the movie. It portrays a dark intent, which is something anyone in the Craft will tell you is strictly against the rules. However, it is a tendency in Gillian's (Kidman's) character to be drawn towards the dark path, and was therefore fitting.

And who can't identify with Sandra Bullock's Sally Owens wanting nothing more than to be "normal?" Who IS normal? WHAT is normal? Love is normal. And that's all she wants is to love unequivocally and receive that love in return.

And then there's "The Owens Family Curse." We all have ours.

Some bald early, some have the unbelievably spacious nose inherited from "Uncle Elmer." My family curse is the lack of child-bearing women in My family, hence I am the last of My mother's family. She had only Me and I have bore no live children.

At least she didn't put the usual curse on Me. (The "I hope you have a kid JUST LIKE YOU!" curse.).

The idea of Sally (Bullock) owning/operating a botanical shop, "I manufacture bath oils," is spot on. Many Magick Users long to do something along those lines.

Sally and Gillian's bringing back Gillian's lover (Goran Visnjic) from the dead (?!) "We don't do that." (Dianne Wiest as "Auntie" Bridget Owens) That spell book would have had to have been passed down from at least 5 generations, if not more to even HAVE a spell like that within its bindings. That having been said, those "in the Craft" don't do that. Most CAN'T do that, and those who can...well...shouldn't. Necromancy is of the Dark Arts, and is no part of the Craft.

And finally, the ending.

The ending was quite fantastic and over the top. Insanity, if you ask Me, but ... no one did.

Jumping off the roof of their house, in full witch regalia complete with pointy hats, bucked shoes and red and white-striped stockings, and floating down to the ground safely and slowly, FLOATING! down like that...put a fantasy-styled ending to what otherwise would have been a big boost for Pagans in the mundane world.

It's a very entertaining story, and contains great portrayals by.... Sandra Bullock .... Sally Owens Nicole Kidman .... Gillian Owens Stockard Channing .... Frances Owens Dianne Wiest .... Bridget Owens Evan Rachel Wood .... Kylie Owens Alexandra Artrip .... Antonia Owens ...right up until the ending. But the ending doesn't negate the entire movie. It just degraded its value far more than Pagans would have liked.

It still gets a 7.2/10 from...

the Fiend :.
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7/10
A fun movie, despite a few weak points
myrddyn1 June 1999
It appears that director Griffith Dunne tried to keep this film from being as powerful as it could have been. The movie fails to fully develop the town's overt fear of witches (missing only slightly), the full foreboding of "something wicked this way comes" with Jimmy (although the script lets them get away with it), and the magical love bond between Sally and Gary. A few small changes, such as more supportive background music, would have made these points support and counterpoint the lighter parts of the flick.

Bullock and Kidman are very good as the central characters, very believable as different-but-bonded sisters. Kidman is a little too flaky at times to be a fully credible witch, but this characterization runs well enough in context. Channing (whom I rarely enjoy) and Wiest are excellent in major supporting roles, outdone only by Webb and Wood (Sally's daughters) who show their abilities by *not* overacting their potentially cutesy roles. Instead, they do a great job in stating variations on their mother and Aunt Gilly.

Overall, I think most aspects of direction and production could have used one more iteration of quality improvement. Still, the movie is quite enjoyable, and worth watching again some time.
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It's Not About the Magic.
LenB7 October 2002
I have read through more than half of the reviews that have been posted for this film and have been amazed that no one seems to have caught on as to what it's really *about*.

It's NOT about the Magic. It's NOT about the witchcraft. It's NOT about the romance. It's about the power of numbers. In particular, it's about how women grouped together have power to fight the physical abuse of womankind, when a lone victim, with or without one or two relatives or friends, does not. On a lesser level, it's about how women who are not prone to being victimized can help rescue those who are. Everything else is just for flavor. Is a pumpkin pie about the spice? Is a dish served flambe about the alcohol?

This movie contains much food for thought. Comments about whether it does or does not accurately portray the practice of Wicca are so far off the point as to be meaningless.

Superficially, yes, it's fluff, and meant to be fun, and not meant to be taken seriously or as a work of art. But dig a little bit deeper, for goodness sake, and see what's underneath that puffy exterior. There's a lot there!
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7/10
Bewitched
richardchatten2 May 2020
A kookie chick-flick with a plot that resembles a supernatural remake of 'What a Way to Go!' with a bit of 'The Monkey's Paw' (and an appropriately twee score by Alan Silvestri) thrown in.

With Nicole Kidman and Sandra Bullock as the sisters and Stockard Channing and Diane Wiest as their 'bohemian' aunts it can't fail to provide a diverting couple of hours.
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7/10
Light-hearted and fun to watch.
spanking_machine14 March 2022
I noticed that most of the angriest user reviews on this movie come from people who were unable to identify the genre of this flick. So they went on and on about how this movie doesn't know what it wants to be ecc.

Is it horror? Is it comedy? Is it a Hocus Pocus wannabe? The answer is no to all but who cares anyway. We're in 2022 and what genre would you say "The power of the dog" is? Next time why not try to appreciate a film for what it is, instead of spending all your time looking for a specific genre that's most likely linked to a bunch of preconceived ideas?

Now that's out of the way, we can discuss this movie which tells the story of these two modern witchy sisters and their romantic adventures -that are nothing but unfortunate-. Still, no matter how bad the situation is, these stick together through thick and thin. One embraces her natural talents, the other desperately seeks a normal life, shunning all the stigma that comes with being born a witch. Orphaned at an early age, the two move in with their aunts in a large Victorian house in New Salem, Massachusetts.

It's quite genuine in that they present us a more tender and vulnerable side to witches. In movies, we were used to seeing a cartoon version of witches, the Wizard of Oz comes to my mind, but these sisters couldn't be more humane if they tried to. It's equipped with good performances, including the excellent interpretations of Stockard Channing and Dianne Wiest, and beautiful picturesque scenery all around. The befitting soundtrack includes music by Joni Mitchell and Stevie Nicks. Don't expect some kind of intellectual masterpiece. I hardly think that's what they were going for! My advise, just enjoy it for what it is, it's a wonderful film.
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7/10
A practically magical film...
marialiv1219 July 2006
I watched this movie for the first time years ago, when I was quite younger. I watched it again recently, and I'd like to say that I really liked the way the theme (witchcraft) was presented and used. Mixing modern and traditional elements, natural and supernatural, the film is suspenseful but romantic, including witches and common people, concerning past and present. This variety of characteristics is, I believe, the greatest "plus" of the movie, along with satisfying performances by S. Bullock, N. Kidman, S. Channing, D. Wiest. "Practical Magic" is a must for paranormal-lovers, or for people looking for a drop of everything: fantasy, love, fun, suspense... in this interesting mixture by G. Dunne.
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3/10
What are you talking about?!
cosmorados3 July 2008
This is one of the most bizarre mish-mashes of a film that I have ever seen. It wanders from being a girl-bonding film to a romance to witchcraft with each segment popping up like one is reading a magazine with one part following another with no real cohesion between them. The basic idea is that Sandra Bullock and Nicole Kidman play witches, and Sandra can't have a normal romance with a human because she is a witch.

We learn this early on and from this point on the film ambles through plot lines and ideas, each with about fifteen minutes till it moves onto the next idea which last for another 15 minutes. Each moment is so disconnected from the rest that you feel no real passion for the characters and no distinctive connection to the story, if you can call it that.

If you're after a good chick flick with magic see "Stardust", if you want a good chick flick in general see "Bring it on", but for pity's sake please avoid this one. It's got Akiva Goldman's name on it and is from the same school as "Batman and Robin". Don't say you've not been warned.
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9/10
Loved it
lllama2 May 2002
Normally I don't care for chick flicks, but I can't seem to stop watching this one over and over again. I was surprised that so many others didn't care for it. I just loved the sets, the costumes, the women and their relationships, the real magic in the film, the special effects, the child actresses. This was stuff that women could relate to better than men. Aidan Quinn was the only boring part of the movie. I wished they'd chosen an actor who was more into the role. He seemed bored and made his part in the film more boring. (Also, he mumbles. Someone should give him elocution lessons.)

This movie wasn't meant to be heavy. It was meant to be light, fun fluff, and that it is. The characters weren't meant to be deep, but I felt the relationship between the two sisters was deeper and well performed by two skilled actresses. In spite of the fluffiness of it, I enjoyed the two scenes in which we got to sit and relax to the sound of Stevie Nicks' "Crystal." So what if cars weren't crashing and guns weren't shooting. They weren't supposed to be. I felt the camaraderie of the moment as the two sisters and their aunts got drunk on "midnight margaritas" while dancing to Harry Nilsson's "Lime in the Coconut." It was just plain light fun. Also, women can enjoy the vicarious satisfaction of watching these women destroy the evil, bullying man who tries to destroy them.

The end of the film was rather Disney-kiddie-flick-like. Another ending might have worked better, but it was tolerable because it reminded the audience that the film was all in fun, and not to be taken seriously.

I usually prefer deeper films, but I thoroughly enjoyed this piece of fluff. Sure it was silly and campy, but it was fun. A film doesn't have to take itself seriously to be fun. Bullock, Kidman, Channing, and Wiest are beautiful, charming and wonderful to watch in this flick, and I love watching the four of them over and over again.
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7/10
Magic was done here
Harlequin-Rose8 August 2021
The real magic of this movie was turning that awful book into such an enjoyable movie.

Someone behind the scenes really understood what women want when watching witches, and it certainly wasn't the claptrap in the novel.

I used to admire this movie for being enjoyable, fun, sexy, beautiful, bewitching... But after reading the source material, I now admire it for things I didn't even notice before.

The relationship between the sisters (all three pairs), mothers and daughters, aunts and nieces, neighbours, enemies, lovers, abusers and the abused. Its a study of how these relationships can save you (even from yourself).

It's also a look into who you are and how you fit in. If everyone thinks you are a witch, do you own it or fight it? Do you care?

Will you allow the curses of your ancestors to wreck havoc on the descendants they never lived to meet?

This movie brings up so many questions about the human spirit and how we work with or against one another. And I could only see that once I saw the original story about selfish people with no connection to other humans.

The script writer was practically magic!
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4/10
The sound track got more attention than the plot.
gam328 October 1998
This movie is just a little bit off. Nothing is wrong with it, but nothing is right either. The sound track overpowers the story in some places, and you have the feeling that the producer was planning to make money on it.
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10/10
Man I don't get all the negative
rogerdozier6 January 2019
I am a straight guy and I love this movie, I don't understand all the hate.. so people are just way to judgmental. Great movie . Screw the haters
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7/10
Practical Magic Is practically magical
tbills29 August 2018
Warning: Spoilers
Nicole Kidman is the most beautiful red head ever, I ain't Nicole Kidding. I feel love for her.

Sandra Bullock is the best looking brunette head I've ever seen, and that's no Sandy Bull. I love her more than life.

I love Sandra Bullock. I love Nicole Kidman. They are with me forever and always. (especially Sandra, even when I'm not seeing her)
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4/10
Witches' Brew of Mismatch Genre
SnoopyStyle9 March 2014
Sally (Sandra Bullock) and Gillian Owens (Nicole Kidman) have been told by their aunts (Stockard Channing, Dianne Wiest) early on about the family curse. Their ancestor Maria Owens was hung as a witch, but she survives. She was exiled to what is now their home Maria's Island in Massachusetts with her unborn child. She casts a spell to never fall in love. The curse has endured killing all the men that Owens women love. Gillian is the wild child and she wanders away from home. Sally stayed home. Against all odds, she falls in love with her husband and has two girls. Everything seems fine until the curse strike her husband dead. Then drunken mess Gillian calls one night for help. Gillian's boyfriend Jimmy (Goran Visnjic) takes both sisters hostage. Sally tries to dose Jimmy with belladonna but an overdose kills him. So they bury his body in the yard. Police detective Gary Hallet (Aidan Quinn) comes investigating the missing Jimmy. Only Jimmy's spirit is now haunting the sisters.

This movie is a witches' brew of mismatch genres. It wants so desperately to be a rom-com. But there are some really dark fantasy elements that would probably be better off as a thriller. And then there are real slices of horror. It's a wildly inconsistent mess. For so much of it, director Griffin Dunne is using such a delicate light touch to the tone that all the murder and mayhem seems weirdly fake. Bullock and Kidman are great actors who has good chemistry together as sisters. However, the chemistry between Bullock and Quinn is questionable. The main reason being that the love may be spell induced. I just don't know what to do with this mess.
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A Wonderfully fun movie
praxagora7 March 2003
This movie is one of my favorites - I love watching it.

I have to agree with the remarks by AshIsTheGal and Warlen. Nicole Kidman had never been one of my favorite actress either, but I loved her in this movie (as I did Sandra Bullock). The real standouts though were Stockard Channing and Diane Wiest - watching them perform was almost worth the price of admission itself! They are wonderful.

I don't see this movie as being about magic or witchcraft, the romance between Sally and Gary Hallet or even Jimmy Angelov chasing Gillian (which is a huge catalyst - but not really any more than that). For me, this movie is really about the relationships between sisters and women (the Aunts Franny and Jet, Kylie and Antonia, the Owens' women and the townswomen and of course, between Sally and Gillian - both young and adult).

All of the actresses had a great chemistry, but I couldn't believe how well matched Sandra Bullock and Nicole Kidman were. I felt that their bond was very believable and I loved watching their relationship to each other (and themselves) grow and mature as they went from being children to adults.

I certainly don't think that this film will appeal to everybody, and I can see why so many people "don't get it", but if you watch it more for the relationships between the women and not so much for the romance angle or the magic I think that you will really enjoy this movie. I thought that the romance and magic were handled very well, I just saw them as being secondary to the real story. Also - it has a wonderful soundtrack.

I read the book after seeing the movie, and while there are many changes between the two, I really enjoyed both. I thought that the changes made to the movie made for a better movie overall.

All in all, a very enjoyable movie. I highly recommend it.
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6/10
Hard to describe
wnterstar6 April 2004
Warning: Spoilers
Possible spoilers throughout

I'm not sure if I liked this movie or not. The premise was good. The acting was good. The special effects were excellent. Because I know several pagans, I can say that the magick aspect of it was fairly accurate (more accurate than most of the "witch movies" out there now, and, as a ghost hunter, the banishing was really well done.)

Having said all that, I still can't pinpoint what I really didn't like about it. It's like the movie couldn't make up it's mind if it wanted to be a comedy or a drama; a modern fairy tale or a true to life tale.

The end came too quick and the answer to the problem seemed too pat and too easy. I didn't buy it. The townspeople changed their minds too easily. You don't get over 300 years of prejudice overnight.

It was enjoyable, but not my favorite movie.
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7/10
Surprised.
Peach-25 April 1999
I was very surprised how wrapped up I got into this story. I give credit to Griffin Dunne, the director, and a very appealing cast. The musical score to this film, by Alan Silvestri, is very magical indeed. The story is well told by everyone involved. The special effects are subtle but effective to say the least. This is what Sandra Bullock does best in my opinion. She plays an innocent so well that when things work out for her, you find yourself emotionally involved in her story. The film is a little overlong, otherwise very entertaining.
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7/10
Late 90s Lilith Fair soundtrack
buschart12 July 2022
There's an enchanting element to this film that's hard to pinpoint. The production details are phenomenal, so that plays a huge part in it, but there's more... it has that thing that most modern movies have lost. You could it's say magic, but what does that really encompass? However you feel about this movie, it has a look, a feel, a style to it that doesn't exist anymore. And I miss that.
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8/10
Light and entertaining
blanche-213 July 2009
Sandra Bullock, Nicole Kidman, Stockard Channing and Dianne Wiest indulge in some "Practical Magic," a 1998 film directed by Griffin Dunne. Bullock and Kidman play sisters, Sally and Gillian, both of whom are witches. One (Kidman) is free-wheeling and out in the world, and Bullock is a widowed mother with children who refuses to have anything to do with magic. One of their ancestors put a curse on any man involved with a woman in her family, and the curse lost the sisters their father and Bullock's husband. Her two aunts, however, Francis and Bridget (Channing and Wiest) still practice their spells. When Gillian takes up with the wrong man (again) (Goran Visjnic), she calls Sally. As a result of Sally's help, they find themselves in a lot of trouble and have to take drastic measures. Things don't work out as planned.

I'm not sure what the problem is - it appears that some people on IMDb expect every film to be Magnolia, and if it isn't, they reject it as junk. This movie is what it is intended to be - light, with some suspense, some scares, some fun, lots of warmth, and great characters. If you read the book, disappointment is more understandable, and I feel your pain.

The acting is excellent, with four top actresses as the stars, and the relationships between them are excellent as well. As others have mentioned, the best part of the film is when they start calling neighbors so they can have a coven.

Highly recommended.
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6/10
There's a little witch in every woman....
Lady_Targaryen23 June 2006
Warning: Spoilers
I remember watching ''Practical Magic '' with 12 years old in a movie theater, after all, since I was very young, I liked a lot movies with magic and witches. I am surprised to just now notice that Evan Rachel Wood is in this movie, in the role of Bullock's kid, as well as Dianne Wiest, the 'Lucy' from ''lost Boys''.. I think it is nice to know that one of my favorite scenes, the one where Gillian, Sally and their aunts are drunk, was a true and honest scene, since ''the actresses actually got drunk'',as the trivia's says...

The plot: Sally and Gillian are sisters and are both witches, like her mother, her aunts and the women of their family. But they carry on a family legacy,that only leads the women to tragedy and sadness: all the men who get close to an Owens,eventually dies.(The women in the family never give birth to boys, by the way.) Many problems start to happen when Gillian's boyfriend dies and Sally stays in love with a detective.
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2/10
extremely stupid
akulier24 November 1998
Probably one of the dumbest movies I have ever seen. Director can´t decide whether to make a comedy, romance, absurd comedy or horror story. It is less than bad, it is simply boring beyond belief. The only thing that matches the incredibly stupid story and inferior directing, is the lack of any visible acting as such.
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10/10
In favor of this movie!
Starcat Zeppo11 September 1999
Warning: Spoilers
Reading the reviews of this movie is like being on a teeter-totter. One hates, the other loves, one hates... I LOVED THIS MOVIE.

Maybe it's because I come from a family of 6 sisters.... The bonding and care between the sisters and the Aunts, standing against the rest of the town's distrust and dislike shows family strength. When Sandra is weeping over her husband dying, I cried with her. I thought it was a fabulous moment for her in the movie.

If you want a movie about a woman getting revenge on an abusive husband, rent The Color Purple (ALSO a fave of mine) This movie was playful, at times slightly spooky... Hello? It's a Witch story... it should have SOME spooky stuff in it, and I don't feel the special effects were too over done.

As far as them inviting the women of the town in to help, I loved that whole sceen as well. The flash backs to the sisters as children and not wanting to let the other go... all of it. Each time that sceen pops into power mode, it makes me want to call every one of my sisters.

I haven't read the book, so I understand there might be some disappointment from those who HAVE read it. Movies rarely pack the punch of the written word they're based on. (Like EVERY King movie EVER put on film!)

But I adore Practical Magic. I saw it in the theater, and bought it as soon as I could.
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6/10
Watch it for Nic and Sandra
jacqui-328 July 1999
The two ladies are simply amazing! If sexy legs and cleavage and up-all-night sisterly cuddles are your idea of good-natured fun (not without a bit of funky twist of the supernatural), then this movie will do you justice. Mmm.

Personally, I've never felt such intensely contradicting emotions during the course of one movie. Most of the times I'm grimacing for better plot development. That is, can the story dump the cliches with more confidence and truly explore real-life issues of women such as abuse --- instead of using it as a stepping-stone for sexy actresses to get wicked and 'bewitched'?!) The stock characters of the female townies, always adversary to the sister-witches, are truly embarrassing.

The film remains superficial precisely because it touches on, rather than develops, very complex phenomena like fear of witches (read: powerful women), competition among women, abusive relationships, women's cinderella dreams, fitting in, female ambitions (examplary housewife or wild slut - your pick), etc etc etc!!!! Instead these issues are *exploited* for a *greatly* uneven film: a hodge-podge of romance, black/family comedy-drama, suspense, crime story, science fiction...We CAN still have a fun and exciting movie with a story that focuses on, respects, and gives its all to one or two of these topics without using them for their surface/shock values (really!)

It's highly possible that the film started out with a solid good script based on the book and gets tampered with by the studio for maximum appeal later on. The most horrifying aspects for me? The flying witches at the end (oh GAWD!) The strange cut from the sexual passions of the main romance to a weird-and-weak confrontation with the supernatural undead boyfriend (as if the effects people are itching to drop a load of Hollywood eye candy - even at expense of awkward development!) And the overall stereotypical typecasting of women.

The only enjoyable elements left of the film are the two female leads. I have to admire their courage and creativity in some of the absolutely ludicrous moments (midnight magarita, flying as witches, one nibbling on the other's ear...) And that atmospheric opener with grandma-witch who got knocked up by an unfaithful member of the male species and is crying up a storm toward an open sea?....just fastforward to Nic and Sandra. Or pop in Witches of Eastwick for a more acceptable film of a similar theme [just don't expect it to be as sexy;) ]
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1/10
What the hell ????
Meat-27 January 1999
I saw this movie the 30th December together with my girlfriend, and I must admit it was unique !! The only movie in 1998 of which I doubted to leave during the break. It is so, so bad ... Can anybody tell me what the hell it is about ? NOTHING ! Don't get me wrong, I like now and then a light entertaining movie ... but this one just insulted my intelligence. I normally even like Sandra Bullock and Nicole Kidman but now their performances were the same level as the movie. The worst part is probably that I stayed till the end since we wanted to see if it would get any worse ... It did!
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